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Kiesco

"The grey area" of urbex

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Hello all! I have an explore ready and organised with a friend of mine but we were trying to work out a cover story for us being in the building with our cameras just incase the security catches us. I looked into the legality of it and just started to think, although trespassing isn't a criminal offence, can you still get locked up or fined? Has anyone hd much run in with security guards or shred some information on this subject to help a brother out?

Kiesco

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As long as you don't do anything criminal you won't have any fear of such things. Don't break in, don't vandalise, don't steal, don't leave litter and you will be fine! As the old saying goes. ..... Take only photos leave only footprints

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Can depend on the type of site and the secca you encounter There's many websites offering advice, but that can just be too much info! Personally I've encountered police once in property grounds after nosey neighbours called them, they just took names and made sure we left the site. I've given my name to secca once. Like Zero said, if you haven’t broke the law, are polite and cooperate and explain your reasons for being there most secca just let you go. Sort of thing you get accustomed to the more you explore. Best thing is avoid them, hide and run where possible :D

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Guest Dubbednavigator

The police may try and shit you up a bit if they are having one of those days, or the property has been hit hard by the vandals/pikeys

Just watch how security treat you, sometimes you will be the one to want the police involved...

If you are caught, get it filmed in either case.

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Well now theres a question lol and there is no definitive answerer.

There are various options available and only you can decide as to which avenue to go down.

A lot depends on the circumstances, type of location the means and method as to which you have gained entry etc etc.

There really is a very long list of how you could play it at the end of the day & the responsibility of the situation is all yours.

I guess there are things you should bare in mind and also be aware of which may assist in a more favourable outcome.

Spend some time researching into the area of trespass civil and criminal.

Baring in mind the law differs in Scotland than of that of the rest of the UK as they have a right to roam.

How carrying certain Items can be viewed as going equipped to steal.

There are also certain types of location where the law differs as Trespass on railway, government or crown property is a criminal offence.

Doing the above will give you a better idea but never assume after doing so you are some kind of expert.

Security

Security Officers are normally low paid and work long hours often alone in out of the way places.

Their role being to protect property from theft, arson and vandalism

Also worth noting to preventing & protect curious members of the public from straying into locations which can be hazardous in nature?

Most are decent people just trying to earn a wage and get by in life.

Through Urban Exploration we have chosen to venture into an area in which they are responsibly for and at some point we are destined to cross paths

Regardless to how stealthy we are as Ninjas we are not.

On initial contact they have no idea as to our intentions and have always thought this moment to be crucial in taking away any fear or apprehensions they may have.

This is normally done by being polite courteous and make clear the purpose of you being on the property and have no problems with leaving.

The camera and tripod in view is normally enough and if the location is one visited via us often they have seen it all before.

Most are happy once they have confirmed no damage has been done regarding method of entry,

Even the offer for them to look through the contents of your bag, which ive done on occasion as have nothing to hide & If requested provide ID.

More often than not you will find you are simply escort from the property.

A recent conversation with secca gave me a good insight as to why he had personally adopted this approach.

He explained two months previously a his friend a security guard on the same site had been beaten with iron bars and kicked unconscious by metal thieves he had come across.

He said they had a call button to summon Police in his office and he would use this button every time he came across people on the site. Which was quite often?

When he really needed them the Police assumed same old same old and took almost an hour to respond.

Even if secca is all excited, unprofessional and in a semi panic remain calm and don’t allow the situation to escalate or get silly.

Put secca at ease and make clear you are no threat and assure you have no criminal intentions.

The Police.

Again the Police have a job to do as is their duty.

If they are responding to a call they have to ascertain if there has been any intent or criminal offence committed and if so gain evidence for the CPS.

Be open and honest with them and normally common sense wins the day.

If its not a normal day & the officers is having a bad one you could find your self being arrested for the offence of being found on enclosed premises.Vagrancy act 1824.

I have on several occasions been arrested for this and is used as a means of locking you up with a view to obtain evidence through further interview.

Ive never heard in modern times any Urban explorers being prosecuted for this offence by the CPS.

It’s more used to buy time so they can go on a fishing trip.

As long as you have committed no criminal offences and the Station you are being held in aren’t too busy you will find your self released in a few hours.

If they are busy you could find your self in over night and recommend just getting your head down.

This Article I found an interesting insight

Vagrancy Act 1824 | PC Richard Stanley

I hope this gives you food for thought and helps some

As said im no expert in the law but having an insight does help and ignorance in the eyes of the law is no excuse.

Have fun with it and stay safe

:thumb

Edited by skeleton key

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I pretty much followed the advice above when I got nabbed and everything was tickety boo.

I've heard of exceptions but my guess is that most seccas are just decent, ordinary folk trying to make a meagre living (that's basically what they said to me).

There seem to be some douches on another well-known explore forum who thing it's clever to make secca look stupid. This is really not very helpful for everybody else.

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superb bit of info there SK, just make sure your intentions are clear and most importantly dont carry tools! much less of a chance of being arrested or police being called if you have them on you :D

Edited by Tin_Ribs

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not been nabbed yet but im sure it will happen soon enough, but i pretty much follow what you say i make sure i have no tools on me etc, ive had a security let me on a site before by just being polite and explaining what i wanted to do,

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Sk couldn't of put it better

I've been caught a couple of times, once by a secca guard who just wanted to know what we where doing and asked us to leave

and another time by the cop's who just took our details, had a banter of canon vs nikon and asked us to leave [ not all cop's are bad], just stay polite, don't be an ass, and you will be fine :)

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Hello all! I have an explore ready and organised with a friend of mine but we were trying to work out a cover story for us being in the building with our cameras just incase the security catches us. I looked into the legality of it and just started to think, although trespassing isn't a criminal offence, can you still get locked up or fined? Has anyone hd much run in with security guards or shred some information on this subject to help a brother out?

Kiesco

There is no cover story, that's just a silly road to go down.

The best advise is don't get caught, but second to that if you are be nice, make sure you haven't got anything on you that you shouldn't have (Tools, drugs, weapons etc.) and just be honest about why you're there, most security are more than aware of urban exploration as a hobby, they might not like it, but there's not a lot they can do. Sometimes the police will be called, sometimes they won't. If you have a run in with a professional security person, unless they have very good reason to think you've broken in or committed a crime of some sort they should just escort you off the premises.

If the worst happens and they call the police, the very worst that can happen (providing you haven't got anything on you that you shouldn't have) is you'll get arrested for suspected burglary, breaking and entering or sometimes they like to pull the good old 'being in an enclosed space' out the bag (which is strictly miss-application of the law, but don't bother arguing the toss, it's not worth the hassle as once they've made up their mind they're arresting you then they will no matter what bullshit offence they have to pull out the bag to do it.) You'll be questioned at the police station for a few hours, then let go without charge as there really is nothing else they can do. This is the absolute worst case scenario and has happened to me on two occasions now. Thinking back they were both stupid places to be at the times we were there, one was right next door to a live power plant and the other was a place that two days previous had been used for a rave (and we knew it) so the police were keeping an eye on it.

Still you live and learn.

Best bit of advice, don't think about it too much or it spoils the adventure. :-)

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My general rules for newbies asking about it.

1) Don't be a dick.

That pretty much covers it - don't take stuff along likely to land you in hot water with security/police. Don't act like an idiot to security or police, on the off chance you are caught (remember most places don't bother with actual live security guards) be polite and courteous, and talk to them like a real human being. Remember, you know you're only there to take photos but for all they know you could be there to smash things up, steal stuff, or even assault them. So explain what you were doing and offer to leave. Failure to leave when asked can become aggravated trespass and the police can be called.

On the very small chance you are collared by the fuzz, 99% of the time once you show them/explain to them you are only taking photos they'll be fine - you may get searched (like happened to me once) but again if you've got nothing on you you shouldn't have, you'll be fine and they'll be fine too as it's pretty much standard procedure for them. You may get a bit of a ticking off from them but 99.9% of the time you'll be on your way. Of course there are exceptions to these rules and there are cases where police and/or security have massively overreacted to people taking photos but it is very very rare to get in a 'normal' location, however bear in mind if you go down the route of doing live infrastructure, the Tube network and live utilities the police are likely to take a much more dim view of it if you are caught.

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Some brilliant advice already posted on here, SK pretty much covered everything.

I will remind you what he said about first contact with Secca though, you must remember that this poor sod is probably on his own, there maybe 3? 5? or more of you and he doesn't know if you are pikeys, arsonists or even a bunch of high level bad boys looking for a place to stash narcotics or even weapons, I know this sound dramatic but there's a pretty good chance that this bloke is actually shitting himself even though he is acting brave

DON'T raise your hands above your head, you will look like a twat, but I personally think that holding them in front of you to show that your not going to cosh him is a great idea, after all, the modern day handshake actually origonated by gentlemen holding out their sword hand to show that they wasn't going to attack

Be cool, explain what you are doing and 99% of the time all is good and you will be asked to leave, at the end of the day of you haven't broken a CRIMINAL LAW then you can't be prosecuted for a CRIMINAL offence

Civil trespass, needs a private prosecution by the owner who will have to prove that you have incurred him a loss, not easy

:thumb

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Lots of sound advice there guys, I've picked up a couple of tips just reading through it all, I've only ever been caught twice, one of those occasions I was with SK, Police turned up but all was well, Just be up front, open and honest, show you mean no harm and as said have nothing to hide, At the end of the day we are where we are not supposed to be and Secca and the Police are doing what they are paid to do, Be considerate to this and heed the advice given, stay safe, be careful and most of all have fun !

:thumb

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